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	<title>Comments on: Listening to Webern</title>
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	<link>http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/listening-to-webern/</link>
	<description>Two grad students blog their way through the most monumental musicological work in generations.</description>
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		<title>By: ABQChris</title>
		<link>http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/listening-to-webern/#comment-1771</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ABQChris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/?p=1314#comment-1771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A superb essay. What truly matters with music is whether or not the sounds coming out of the instruments (or speakers) excite or move you in some way. Does it feel good to listen to? Then it&#039;s automatically good; anything beyond your response to the music is mere sociological imposition. Music is for the ears. Extramusical concerns such as symmetrical scores can be fun for some, but you don&#039;t listen to them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A superb essay. What truly matters with music is whether or not the sounds coming out of the instruments (or speakers) excite or move you in some way. Does it feel good to listen to? Then it&#8217;s automatically good; anything beyond your response to the music is mere sociological imposition. Music is for the ears. Extramusical concerns such as symmetrical scores can be fun for some, but you don&#8217;t listen to them.</p>
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		<title>By: bioloominescent</title>
		<link>http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/listening-to-webern/#comment-1112</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bioloominescent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2011 05:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/?p=1314#comment-1112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve just recently gotten into Webern, specifically his Five Pieces for Orchestra and Passacaglia for Orchestra.  My first true formal exposure to atonal music was in a Composing for Non-Majors course in 1997, however, it&#039;s taken me this many years to really be able to listen to it with open ears.  I think the reason for me personally is based on my specific evolution as an aspiring composer myself.  My tonal materials are often derived from jazz minor, octatonic, and diatonic modes.  My procedure for each new piece has been to explore a new &#039;exotic scale&#039; of some sort.  This results in a certain type of tonality that is modern-y and somewhat chromatic, but I&#039;m starting to see how this can ultimately be limiting in terms of the harmonic and dramatic palette available to me.  

I don&#039;t know who said this, but someone once wrote that the problem with serial music isn&#039;t that it&#039;s unemotional but that it&#039;s too emotional.  I don&#039;t think we can dismiss the effect the cinema has on mainstream receptiveness to many twentieth century, otherwise avant-garde affectations such as serialism, texturalism, and electronic music.  I think that exploration has helped many understand the dramatic/programmatic potential of these types of composition.  

I think the best PR for atonal music is to stop emphasizing its association with academia.  The way serialism, in particular, was framed for me in that first composition class was like it was some science experiment whipped together in a university lab that was more concerned with mathematical precision than aural aesthetics.  I remember my instructor comparing serialism to a slug, which on a visceral level is disgusting but on a purely biological level is a work of art of the highest transcendental order.  

When I listen to Schoenberg and Webern now, I don&#039;t get this impression anymore.  I think of serialism as more of a style than a process now.  The visual impression of the twelve-tone matrix itself communicates so much stuffiness and precompositional determinism that I think it has largely contributed to an unfair bias towards serialism as being hyperintellectualization, when the fact is that the aural/psychological effect is just as significant as in tonal music and more often than not, only a few rows from the matrix are generally utilized in a given piece.  It&#039;s more about the conception of the initial pitch sequence that ultimately builds the character of the resulting piece.

Of course, there are bad serial composers and hardcore integral serialists, but I am less familiar with their work.  I can say for sure that when I listen to Webern and Schoenberg, I hear more of a concern for beauty and sensation than a of pure experimentalism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just recently gotten into Webern, specifically his Five Pieces for Orchestra and Passacaglia for Orchestra.  My first true formal exposure to atonal music was in a Composing for Non-Majors course in 1997, however, it&#8217;s taken me this many years to really be able to listen to it with open ears.  I think the reason for me personally is based on my specific evolution as an aspiring composer myself.  My tonal materials are often derived from jazz minor, octatonic, and diatonic modes.  My procedure for each new piece has been to explore a new &#8216;exotic scale&#8217; of some sort.  This results in a certain type of tonality that is modern-y and somewhat chromatic, but I&#8217;m starting to see how this can ultimately be limiting in terms of the harmonic and dramatic palette available to me.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know who said this, but someone once wrote that the problem with serial music isn&#8217;t that it&#8217;s unemotional but that it&#8217;s too emotional.  I don&#8217;t think we can dismiss the effect the cinema has on mainstream receptiveness to many twentieth century, otherwise avant-garde affectations such as serialism, texturalism, and electronic music.  I think that exploration has helped many understand the dramatic/programmatic potential of these types of composition.  </p>
<p>I think the best PR for atonal music is to stop emphasizing its association with academia.  The way serialism, in particular, was framed for me in that first composition class was like it was some science experiment whipped together in a university lab that was more concerned with mathematical precision than aural aesthetics.  I remember my instructor comparing serialism to a slug, which on a visceral level is disgusting but on a purely biological level is a work of art of the highest transcendental order.  </p>
<p>When I listen to Schoenberg and Webern now, I don&#8217;t get this impression anymore.  I think of serialism as more of a style than a process now.  The visual impression of the twelve-tone matrix itself communicates so much stuffiness and precompositional determinism that I think it has largely contributed to an unfair bias towards serialism as being hyperintellectualization, when the fact is that the aural/psychological effect is just as significant as in tonal music and more often than not, only a few rows from the matrix are generally utilized in a given piece.  It&#8217;s more about the conception of the initial pitch sequence that ultimately builds the character of the resulting piece.</p>
<p>Of course, there are bad serial composers and hardcore integral serialists, but I am less familiar with their work.  I can say for sure that when I listen to Webern and Schoenberg, I hear more of a concern for beauty and sensation than a of pure experimentalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh McNeill</title>
		<link>http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/listening-to-webern/#comment-1109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Josh McNeill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 00:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/?p=1314#comment-1109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve always thought of atonal composers as being, possibly inadvertently, very concerned with timbre, almost out of necesity. For instance, I loved Webern&#039;s op. 1 from the first time I heard it because of how the dynamics and texture played with my emotions in the same way tonal composers might via unexpected modulations and such. It&#039;s as if they needed to make good use of the timbral side of their music because it was the only thing that was still recognizable to listeners.

I&#039;ve always thought of minimalism as working in a similar way, ironically.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always thought of atonal composers as being, possibly inadvertently, very concerned with timbre, almost out of necesity. For instance, I loved Webern&#8217;s op. 1 from the first time I heard it because of how the dynamics and texture played with my emotions in the same way tonal composers might via unexpected modulations and such. It&#8217;s as if they needed to make good use of the timbral side of their music because it was the only thing that was still recognizable to listeners.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always thought of minimalism as working in a similar way, ironically.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Samples</title>
		<link>http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/listening-to-webern/#comment-1103</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Samples]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress.com/?p=1314#comment-1103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Right on. I found this a persuasive and moving argument.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on. I found this a persuasive and moving argument.</p>
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